Anti-Pegida Fred

[perfectmansions]

Afghanistan? Iraq?

The Syrian Civil War started in 2011. At this time, Iraq had a large uniformed army that was in control of Iraq. It was equipped and trained by the Western forces. So everything was looking reasonably stable, and this prompted the West to talk about withdrawing completely. The Western forces were nowhere near Syria. This was long before anyone in the West knew about the Islamic State. The Islamic State had not declared itself as such. The Islamic State would go on to kick the arse of the Iraqi Army but this would happen years later.

The Syrian Civil War started when a bunch of hardline Sunni Muslims, attacked al-Assad, because he was not like them. It was classic sectarian violence and the Western forces were nowhere near. It is true that we (the Western forces) trained the 'rebels' in Jordan to fight in Syria, but this happened years after the initial rebellion. I was in Jordan in 2013 as a British soldier, but I still maintain we were not involved in starting that conflict. We backed a side, it was the wrong one in my opinion, but we provided training and equipment. We did not cause the conflict to happen.

 

[Quark]

The Syrian Civil War started in 2011. At this time, Iraq had a large uniformed army that was in control of Iraq. It was equipped and trained by the Western forces. So everything was looking reasonably stable, and this prompted the West to talk about withdrawing completely. The Western forces were nowhere near Syria. This was long before anyone in the West knew about the Islamic State. The Islamic State had not declared itself as such. The Islamic State would go on to kick the arse of the Iraqi Army but this would happen years later.

The Syrian Civil War started when a bunch of hardline Sunni Muslims, attacked al-Assad, because he was not like them. It was classic sectarian violence and the Western forces were nowhere near. It is true that we (the Western forces) trained the 'rebels' in Jordan to fight in Syria, but this happened years after the initial rebellion. I was in Jordan in 2013 as a British soldier, but I still maintain we were not involved in starting that conflict. We backed a side, it was the wrong one in my opinion, but we provided training and equipment. We did not cause the conflict to happen.

True and false!
True: Indeed, you didn't START the conflict. That was after the Arabic Spring in Albania, Lybia and Egypt. (with the flee of Ben Ali, the death of Khadaffi and capture of Mubarak) This movement waved into Syria, but Assad was a bit tougher than the 2 before him. He resisted, causing the civil war which takes now more than 4-5 years.
False: By doing NOTHING during the first years, this mess continued, Assad massacring his own population, and creating a power vacuum in which Daesh jumped into it. If "we" would have interfered before, things might have been different, but this is actually pure speculation. Nonetheless, it's also "our" fault so we have to bear the consequences of "our" own actions.

And the Turkey deal (how dispicable it is, to close a deal with a wannabe dictator (Erdogan), has stopped the flow of refugees into Europe. (for argument's sake, I consider Turkey to be Asian, even though it's 1/4 European, 3/4 Asian) So, the Merkel-argument is not an argument. That was at the time all outside borders were "open".

 

[perfectmansions]

Ethnical groups in the UK. (I looked it up):
English: 81,5%
Scotish: 9,6%
Irish: 2,4%
Welsh: 1,9%
Northern Irelent: 1,8%
(West-)Indiers, Pakistani and others: 2,8%
TOTAL 100%
(Estimated figures of the UN. Population in 2015)

First of all, since our government has lost control of migration to the UK, we do not know who is present in the UK. We don't know who is coming and going.

Your point about how everything is fine because the UK can control non-EU migration misses out an important point: now that Germany has encouraged everyone from outside the EU to try their luck in reaching Europe, the European lifestyle is open to anyone who will take the risk and break into Europe. So non-EU migration is not controlled. It's actually more of a free-for-all. And we are rewarding the people who take it upon themselves to break into another country's sovereign territory. That can't be right.

 

[E'Lell]

Gibt auch noch schöne Meldungen: http://www.come-on.de/politik/demonstration-gegen-asylmissbrauch-abgesagt-teilnehmer-zr-6460968.html

 

[agresionpower]

Gibt auch noch schöne Meldungen: http://www.come-on.de/politik/demonstration-gegen-asylmissbrauch-abgesagt-teilnehmer-zr-6460968.html

haha

 

[E'Lell]

"Schmähungen und Beleidigungen sind wir durchaus gewohnt, aber so eine hohe Zahl von Todesdrohungen haben wir noch nie erlebt."

http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/morddrohungen-101.html

 

[perfectmansions]

Let's bury the hatchet on this whole PEGIDA thing.

I don't even know what PEDIGA is, but I know what friendship is.

 

[E'Lell]

Kein Fake!!!

 

[perfectmansions]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot.

I'm sorry I made the "I am pro-PEGIDA" post. It was a foolish thing to do, because PEGIDA is not a thing near me, and I cannot really know what it is about.

Although I recognise my fault in this matter, I am still against the offer that the German leader Merkel made to anyone that was poor, to risk their lives, and try to make it to Europe. What Merkel has offered, will ruin your country, and people like me in the UK, are trying to exit this system before the problem becomes worse.

It is Merkel, that has created hundreds of drownings, by offering to take these people on board. The reality is, the wealthy countries of the EU (Germany, France, Britain) are heavily indebted already. We cannot afford to sustain this open-ended offer, that has been suggested by Merkel, that we will accept anyone that has the guts to make it across the ocean.

 

[evilCursor]

I am still against the offer that the German leader Merkel made to anyone that was poor, to risk their lives, and try to make it to Europe

This is not what Merkel offered. It would have been insane to do so. What Merkel did indeed do is welcome refugees that were seeking a safe place to stay. Refugee status will not be granted to everyone entering the country. Even children that went to school for years in Germany have no guarantee whatsoever that they can stay indefinitely.

Accepting refugees of war or political persecution into the country on the other hand is nothing but honouring our pledges documented in all the human rights documents we signed. And it should be a moral consensus anyway.

What Merkel has offered, will ruin your country, and people like me in the UK, are trying to exit this system before the problem becomes worse.

I highly doubt that your are right on this one. The number of refugees that will be allowed to stay ist estimated to be less than 1% of the German population. While it surely costs a big chunk of change to manage and acommodate these people, we are not reaching proportions that could threaten to endanger our wellfare system.
Historically, there have always been far bigger numbers of refugees in Europe. Overall the countries/economies that attract refugees and migrants to come do profit in the long run.

You Brits have your own legislation and border control to regulate who is coming and staying. While you are limited by EU law in some ways, that does not mean that you lost control in these matters. The influx in people coming to the EU shouldn't be the main reason for you Britonians to leave 'this system' (EU) in my opinion. Not being a part of the single European Market is very likely to cause more harm than you are trying to 'escape' from.

It is Merkel, that has created hundreds of drownings, by offering to take these people on board.

You are right in the sense that she did underestimate the impact of her words and gestures. It seems to be the case that more people were encouraged to come to Germany in particular because of the message that got across. She has been a lot more careful in regard of what she says on this matter for quite some time now. But a lot of what the people, who decide to leave everything behind to come to the EU, think awaits them are false rumors and promises made by human trafickers and others. You can not blame Merkel for that.

Al lot of what has been happening was only possible because the Dublin agreement was not fit to deal with the current situation and has never been a good system to begin with. A human crisis called for action and it was not possible to reach any consensus on these matters in the EU.

The reality is, the wealthy countries of the EU (Germany, France, Britain) are heavily indebted already. We cannot afford to sustain this open-ended offer, that has been suggested by Merkel, that we will accept anyone that has the guts to make it across the ocean.

Refugees are not responsible for 99,99% or more of the debt of neither Germany, France nor Britain. And as I pointed out this offer never existed the way you stated it. It is easy to forget about the main reasons for the increasing number of refugees and migrants when there is a single person that can be blamed instead.

 

[MetallKopp]

Kein Fake!!!

Sixt hat immer so geile Werbung.

I've been thinking about this thread a lot.

I'm sorry I made the "I am pro-PEGIDA" post. It was a foolish thing to do, because PEGIDA is not a thing near me, and I cannot really know what it is about.

Although I recognise my fault in this matter, I am still against the offer that the German leader Merkel made to anyone that was poor, to risk their lives, and try to make it to Europe. What Merkel has offered, will ruin your country, and people like me in the UK, are trying to exit this system before the problem becomes worse.

It is Merkel, that has created hundreds of drownings, by offering to take these people on board. The reality is, the wealthy countries of the EU (Germany, France, Britain) are heavily indebted already. We cannot afford to sustain this open-ended offer, that has been suggested by Merkel, that we will accept anyone that has the guts to make it across the ocean.

See, this is the usual rubbish that you get told from morons allover the web and the yellows.
As was said, Merkel did never say that, and neither is she to blame for any deaths occurring in the Mediterranean Sea. These deaths happened before, and regardless what Merkel did or not, they were not bound to stop, unless we get safe and legal routes for refugees.

Our country is not ruined, and it won't. Hell, Pakistan takes ten times more refugees than Germany, and we are way more than ten times richer. So.

 

[perfectmansions]

All right, I have taken on board your points of view, no doubt some of the points you have raised will stay in my brain somewhere.

I don't really want to argue with heavy metal people anyway, that's not why I'm here. The heavy metal people are the best.

So I am respectfully walking away from this thread.

 

[Klaasohm]

"Asyl" oder wie ein Volk kollektiv Selbstmord begeht - Querdenken Interview mit Holger Strohm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdznmKfxqjo

 

[evilCursor]

"Asyl" oder wie ein Volk kollektiv Selbstmord begeht - Querdenken Interview mit Holger Strohm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdznmKfxqjo

Allein der Titel tut schon beim lesen weh. Egal wo man im politischen Spektrum zu Hause ist, sowas kann man doch nicht ernst nehmen.

 

[E'Lell]

Offenbar doch
Ist aber doch auch logisch, immerhin arbeitet der "Fachmann" schon mal mit der NPD zusammen, so dass er als neutraler Gutachter (für gewisse Kreise) gelten kann