150K Before WOA 2010

[Quark]

Ich verstehe das Argument dahinter nicht. Weiterhin der Beweis, dass Gesetz nicht gleich Recht ist.

For all the non-German speakings. My point toward Quark is: law does not equal justice/right

(wechsel zu Englisch)

Crime is punished in different ways in different countries. Like you mentioned, a petty thief in China risks to be executed. That's Chinese law (and justice), not mine, I'm against death penalty as it is)

But... aren't we (Western world) trying to press our values into the world? (as do the UN, US (therefore my sorry) etc. Is that justice as well?
All depends on the feeling one has.
In the US, UK and Belgium (amoungst others) ordinairy people decide what's justice in court. A 12 headed jury decides if someone is guilty or not. Is that justice as well? Who knows?

 

[Quark]

Hope Quark doesn't think the same ("law is law") when some people who killed one, two or 200 ppl, just have to be 5 years in prison, 'cause they have like 80 years old, and they have (put here the part of the body you want) failing, and they need medical assistance, so they go out of the jail forever 'till they die...

(sorry if you can't understand what I mean, english is not my main language...)

Someone in jail gets medical attention, as it should be.
The lack of freedom is the punishment, not the dying in prison. Not even for someone on death row!

 

[Sipyloidea]

Let's put up something new to discuss:
In Großbritannien wollte sich eine Frau mit dem Sprung von einer Brücke das Leben nehmen. Die Polizei versuchte dies zu verhindern, weshalb vier Spuren der dortigen Autobahn gesperrt werden mussten, wodurch sich ein Stau bildete.

Dieser Stau veranlasste einen Radio-DJ, den "Van Halen"-Song "Jump" zu spielen, um seine Solidarität mit den Autofahrern zu bekunden. Wenig später stürzte sich die Frau neun Meter in die Tiefe, zog sich jedoch nur leichte Verletzungen zu.

Der Radio-DJ wurde inzwischen entlassen, bereut es jedoch für keine Minute, den Song gespielt zu haben.

In GB a woman wanted to committ suicide by jumping off a bridge. While the police tried to stop her, they blocked 4 tracks of the highway which caused a traffic jam.

Due to the traffic jam a radio-DJ decided to play the song "jump" by Van Halen, to show his solidarity/sympathy to the car drivers. Right afterwards the woman jumped down 9 meters off the bridge. Afterall she only got slightly injured.

The radio-DJ was fired. Yet he doesn't have any regrets having played that song.

 

[Drex]

(wechsel zu Englisch)

Crime is punished in different ways in different countries. Like you mentioned, a petty thief in China risks to be executed. That's Chinese law (and justice), not mine, I'm against death penalty as it is)

But... aren't we (Western world) trying to press our values into the world? (as do the UN, US (therefore my sorry) etc. Is that justice as well?
All depends on the feeling one has.
In the US, UK and Belgium (amoungst others) ordinairy people decide what's justice in court. A 12 headed jury decides if someone is guilty or not. Is that justice as well? Who knows?

Same here... DeGris can be punished IF (and only if) someone in the Wacken Staff tells the police... and, for what I have read, that's not going to happend... It's illegal? yep, it is. Was he conscient of what he was doing? Yep, he was.

 

[Drex]

Someone in jail gets medical attention, as it should be.
The lack of freedom is the punishment, not the dying in prison. Not even for someone on death row!

Yep, but some ppl just spend 5 years in prison, when the sentence says 500... but, as "law is law", they reach a certain age, and they must be out.

So they have been sentenced to 500 years, they spend 5, and that's all...

 

[Quark]

Same here... DeGris can be punished IF (and only if) someone in the Wacken Staff tells the police... and, for what I have read, that's not going to happend... It's illegal? yep, it is. Was he conscient of what he was doing? Yep, he was.

Still, there are more ways that lead to Rome. (or Wacken for that matter)

 

[Sipyloidea]

(wechsel zu Englisch)

Crime is punished in different ways in different countries. Like you mentioned, a petty thief in China risks to be executed. That's Chinese law (and justice), not mine, I'm against death penalty as it is)

But... aren't we (Western world) trying to press our values into the world? (as do the UN, US (therefore my sorry) etc. Is that justice as well?
All depends on the feeling one has.
In the US, UK and Belgium (amoungst others) ordinairy people decide what's justice in court. A 12 headed jury decides if someone is guilty or not. Is that justice as well? Who knows?

The point is that you said what he did was a crime, because (quote) "law is law" and you called him a thief (in a metaphorical way). That remains an insult and I can fully understand that made him angry. It's not the critisism that he couldn't stand, it was your malicious, sneaky way of insulting him, because you personally don't have sympathy with the guy (not the issue).

 

[Sipyloidea]

Same here... DeGris can be punished IF (and only if) someone in the Wacken Staff tells the police... and, for what I have read, that's not going to happend... It's illegal? yep, it is. Was he conscient of what he was doing? Yep, he was.

It was illegal, but with common sense it was not a crime

 

[Drex]

It was illegal, but with common sense it was not a crime

true

 

[xforeverxmetalx]

Wow, this has turned into something...

 

[xforeverxmetalx]

It was illegal, but with common sense it was not a crime

Depends on what you call a crime.

But basically the battle is between "the law is most important no matter what" and common sense/good intentions.

 

[Quark]

Yep, but some ppl just spend 5 years in prison, when the sentence says 500... but, as "law is law", they reach a certain age, and they must be out.

So they have been sentenced to 500 years, they spend 5, and that's all...

I can't answer that question because:

(I'm talking both NL and BE here)

The maximum sentence in NL is life ~ 30 years!
In Belgium it is perpertual (life)
Cumulation is not possible! The maximum counts when cumulation is in order (unlike Spain)

In NL you can get out after 2/3 of your detention under certain conditions. (don't ask, don't know)
In Belgium, you can apply a paroll(?) after 1/3 (max 20 or 25yrs) and this will be handled by a 'court of penal execution'. Again, under conditions.

If "at disposal of the Government" then you'll never see freedom, nor prison. You're colocated (hospitalised for mental reasons), you have the chance to have free periods though. (but with recent scandals in NL, slight chance)

 

[Sipyloidea]

Wow, this has turned into something...

At least it's more interesting than *spam* and *maps* And I just don't like having Quark spoil everyone about that guy while the others don't even know what's going on. Like I said, I don't expect anyone to patronize De Gris, I don't do that either because I have too little knowledge of internetstuff to actually be interested in what he did was good or bad. I just want people to judge him after they had informed themselves and made an own opinion.

 

[Drex]

I preffer common sense and good actions...

In spain, we say "hecha la ley, hecha la trampa" (something like "once law is done, it's also done the trick")

 

[Sipyloidea]

Depends on what you call a crime.

But basically the battle is between "the law is most important no matter what" and common sense/good intentions.

Crime = bad intentions or someone harmed