apparently, Swedes do it better

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Zombi

W:O:A Metalmaster
10 Jan. 2002
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Huldran schrieb:
OK, I put it another way; as long as there are horny men running around, there will always be someone ready to gratify them... this way or another.
Moreover, if a certain activity implies much money - it is likely to be there, legally or illegally.
The Swedes "decreased" it.... good for them. But the sad truth is, it cannot be eradicated completely....even if the government really succeeds in preventing people from going to countries where it's legal. It was around even in the aforementioned Soviet Union "behind the iron curtain"; I am sure it is around in Sweden as well, although disguised... and it will be forever there, no matter what attempts are made to suppress it. That was my point.

for every brothel closed, a "massage parlor" opens up.
 

MetalCommando

W:O:A Metalhead
8 Juli 2003
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Huldran schrieb:
OK, I put it another way; as long as there are horny men running around, there will always be someone ready to gratify them... this way or another.

because men are entitled to sex?
Moreover, if a certain activity implies much money - it is likely to be there,
The Swedes "decreased" it.... good for them.

Actually, it has been considerably decreased in Sweden. As such, your quote marks are somewhat out of touch

But the sad truth is, it cannot be eradicated completely....even if the government really succeeds in preventing people from going to countries where it's legal. It was around even in the aforementioned Soviet Union "behind the iron curtain"; I am sure it is around in Sweden as well, although disguised... and it will be forever there, no matter what attempts are made to suppress it. That was my point.
It cannot be eradicated completely as long as women are seen as objects and not people.
 

mugabe

W:O:A Metalhead
7 Aug. 2002
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The law has made a lot of the prostitution disappear from the streets and gone underground, which is good enough for the legislators, apparently. However, this has made it much harder to overlook, and the prostitutes with medical problems/drug addiction/etc impossible to contact.

I'm a bit ambivalent. Legal brothels make it easier to control the business, and safer for the prostitutes. On the other hand, it legitimises the reduction of people to trade objects.

On the third hand, we're all whores anyway, one way or another.
 

MetalCommando

W:O:A Metalhead
8 Juli 2003
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mugabe schrieb:
The law has made a lot of the prostitution disappear from the streets and gone underground, which is good enough for the legislators, apparently. However, this has made it much harder to overlook, and the prostitutes with medical problems/drug addiction/etc impossible to contact.

I'm a bit ambivalent. Legal brothels make it easier to control the business, and safer for the prostitutes. On the other hand, it legitimises the reduction of people to trade objects.

On the third hand, we're all whores anyway, one way or another.


I am not sure about the underground part. The underground trade exists anyway, but putting the blame and criminalizing the use of prortitutes by men has made it more difficult for the illegal trade as well, on the same lines that the legalizing of prostiution in Germany and Holland has made it a lot easier on the illegal part of the trade as well, such as trafficking and child prostitution.

However, I am not sure if the prostitutes actually get any protection from the legalisation of prostitution. And considering that unionizing the sex workers in Germany did not work ( only less than 2% actually joined) and that 92% of the sex workers have been documented to want out of the sex industry...
 

Huldran

W:O:A Metalhead
29 Jan. 2006
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Under the sign of the Octagon
MetalCommando schrieb:
It cannot be eradicated completely as long as women are seen as objects and not people.
I don't think this is the root of the problem. Look at the Middle east: apparently, prostitution is not as big there as in the Western world, but, ironically, their culture IS known for "treating women as objects and the property of men". Then, male prostitution also exists.... although not that widespread.

(Edith adds: actually, not all prostitutes (male, female, whatever) are forced into this business; the number of "exceptions" may be low, but they do exist).
 
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mugabe

W:O:A Metalhead
7 Aug. 2002
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Avesta, Sweden
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MetalCommando schrieb:
I am not sure about the underground part. The underground trade exists anyway, but putting the blame and criminalizing the use of prortitutes by men has made it more difficult for the illegal trade as well, on the same lines that the legalizing of prostiution in Germany and Holland has made it a lot easier on the illegal part of the trade as well, such as trafficking and child prostitution.
By putting all of it underground, I'd imagine it's tougher on the prostitutes, since all of their customers are now criminals.

MetalCommando schrieb:
However, I am not sure if the prostitutes actually get any protection from the legalisation of prostitution. And considering that unionizing the sex workers in Germany did not work ( only less than 2% actually joined) and that 92% of the sex workers have been documented to want out of the sex industry...
I thought the authorities in Amsterdam, for instance, were pretty much on top of the situation. Also, seeing social workers on a regular basis would make it easier to get out, you'd think.
 

MetalCommando

W:O:A Metalhead
8 Juli 2003
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mugabe schrieb:
By putting all of it underground, I'd imagine it's tougher on the prostitutes, since all of their customers are now criminals.

It actually means less trafficking and less prostitution.

Haver a look at this comparison
http://www.dep.no/jd/english/012101-990578/dok-bn.html

I thought the authorities in Amsterdam, for instance, were pretty much on top of the situation. Also, seeing social workers on a regular basis would make it easier to get out, you'd think.

Not really. Keep in mind that prostitutes are at a great risk of violence and harm by their clients and pimps.

http://www.genderberg.com/phpNuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=111

I have more data if you need it.
 

mugabe

W:O:A Metalhead
7 Aug. 2002
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Avesta, Sweden
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MetalCommando schrieb:
Would it not depend on your priorities list
as in

"Does sustaining someone's human rights trump participating at a sports event"?
There's a time and place for everything. How about

"We're banning all U.S. and U.K. bands and fans at W:O:A, due to their illegal war in Iraq".

What's a rock festival compared to hundreds of thousands of people getting killed?
 

MetalCommando

W:O:A Metalhead
8 Juli 2003
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England
www.forfuckssakes.net
mugabe schrieb:
There's a time and place for everything. How about

"We're banning all U.S. and U.K. bands and fans at W:O:A, due to their illegal war in Iraq".

What's a rock festival compared to hundreds of thousands of people getting killed?

if someone would do that, I would build a statue for them. And keep in mind that I live in the UK, and that this would affect me as well.
 

Huldran

W:O:A Metalhead
29 Jan. 2006
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MetalCommando schrieb:
How do you define "forced"?
By "forced" (as opposed to those who, for whichever reasons, chose this on their own will - and I personally knew a couple girls, who, even having education and being able to work [as something other than a prostitute, I mean], still preferred to "be in the street" - ask me not why), I meant -
those who sell themselves because:
a)other people have forced them to do so, by literal force or by deception;
b)due to personal reasons, e.g., poverty.

In poorer countries, a) and b) go hand in hand.... see what I'm driving at?

However... I guess, this dispute is rather pointless - our views are just too different, if not polar (and your previous post, concerning Wacken and the Iraq war, finally convinced me of that) ...once again, I firmly believe, that banning / prohibiting / outlawing / censoring / you-name-it things is NOT a way to solve problems, no matter how noble the cause may be.

[edit: as for that statement of that Swedish govt.guy - something tells me, that it was only "hot air for the sake of politics" and would never be actually put into action.]
 

mugabe

W:O:A Metalhead
7 Aug. 2002
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61
Avesta, Sweden
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MetalCommando schrieb:
if someone would do that, I would build a statue for them. And keep in mind that I live in the UK, and that this would affect me as well.
Do you think that this ban would

a) raise public awareness of what's wrong with the war

or

b) just piss people off and make them more hostile towards Wacken/Germany/Europe?

I'm saying that bans and boycotts tend to divert people from the issue at hand, instead of getting their attention. These things should be dealt with through established diplomatic channels.