Circle Pits and Wall of Death

Dieses Thema im Forum "English News" wurde erstellt von Wacken-News, 19. August 2010.

  1. Marklar

    Marklar Newbie

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    The CP is there because they know their target market is metalheads and wanted to sell more DVD copies by emphasizing to the metal communities around the world how Wacken Open Air is so unbelievably amazing that one of biggest circle pits in metal history took place there. I guess W:O:A won't be so amazing after the banning.
     
  2. sparragol

    sparragol Newbie

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    This is a difficult topic. From my point of view, CP and WOD don't have to be banned, not only because they look quite cool in the DVDs and images from the shows but because I don't think they're really dangerous. As people said before me, those who don't want to be involved won't be involved in a CP or WOD. Usually it's easy to avoid them. If the CP and WOD become a really pain in the ass for the audience not interested in them, and also start to induce lots of injuried people, then it will have some sense the discussion. But for now, I wouldn't ban CP and WOD.
    And now about crowdsurfing. This "phenomenon" can be very annoying. It happens everywhere (almost this year) and distracts from the show you're trying to attend. A bit of crowdsurfing it's OK and looks quite good in the videos, but when you have 10 or more people surfing it's a real pain in the ass. For instance, this year's Alice Cooper show, I couldn't really enjoy it because each minute I had to rise my arms to hold some guy or girl crowdsurfing, and be aware constantly to avoid a militar boot in my head coming from the back (and also I saw people punching and throwing the crowd surfers because they were fed up... this is very dangerous). The solution to this isn't a ban also, but maybe some kind of control.

    So, summarizing: CP and WOD shouldn't be banned, only under supervision in order to take some kind of action if they become dangerous. CS should be also under investigation because it can become really annoying and this can induce to injuries for the crowdsurfers themselves or the people bearing them.

    But besides all this, there is one more important thing to take care about. It's not possible to get out of the crowd in a hurry if something happens (faints, illness, whatever), this should be revised to be able to reach medical help as soon as possible if needed.

    Thank you for reading! :D
     
  3. Buried Dreamer

    Buried Dreamer Newbie

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    Well, I think there is no Thrash Metal or Death Metal concerts without mosh pits.
    I think everybody knows that in every concert is possible to have mosh pits. If you want to avoid mosh pits, keep distance from the stage or keep very very close to the stage or simply go to another site when the mosh pit take place.
    If you want to prevent mosh pits, I think people will begin to avoid Wacken Open Air. Imagine: the biggest metal festival, without mosh pits! This is insane!

    So, all mosh pits, all over the world, have risks. The metalheads that uses to participate the mosh pits accept that risk and the metalheads that avoid it do it all the time; so there is no surprises here, nothing new.

    This year I remember to see Soufly, and soon after the "no mosh pits please" sign in the big displays, Max Cavalera just said: "I want to see that mosh pit here!". I mean... he didn't saw the advice, and he consider it natural. So do I. Mosh pits are part of the metal world, and it's not up to you to forbid it, whatever the reasons.

    Anyway! I think you should not try to forbid it. Maybe you can display some security warnings, but nothing more.

    Till' Wacken 2011!! /,,/
     
  4. Lady_Wolf

    Lady_Wolf W:O:A Metalmaster

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    Ban on CP's: No.
    Ban on WoD: yes.

    I fucking hate WoD's.
    2 years ago I desperately wanted to see a certain band at Wacken, so I decided to go and try to get a frontrow spot.
    Only way to get a frontrow spot for somebody my size is getting there earlier in the day. Preferably the band before the band you want to see.
    So I made it to the 3rd row (I am small and light, I can't, elbow my way through a crowd. And I wont since I hate it when others do that as well)

    And guess what? A -core band... So there had to be a wall of death.
    The crowd behind my split up, but like me there were people not wanting to lose their spot (or their teeth or glasses) so they stayed put.
    And the singer started bitching about how everybody should split up.
    They would not start playing before the entire crowd was divided.

    Another girl and me actually got pulled to the side by 2 of those beefy hardcore types.
    I managed to jump to the side immediately after the singer yelled "go" but that other girl got pulled in with the crowd and looked totally scared.
    When I saw her later on, I asked if she was ok. But one of her eyes got swollen, and she probably ended up with a black eye because of a wall of death she did not even want to be in, in the first place.

    Circle Pits are way easier to avoid, because the crowd opens up in a more "natural" way.
    People start a circle pit, so others will step aside to avoid it, making room for people who want to be in.
     
  5. ErikJ

    ErikJ Newbie

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    Disappointed

    I could not believe my eyes when I arrived at the festival area and job for a cowboy stopped playing. I saw those huge signs with ''no circle pits please''. I thougt to myself, "this is Wacken right?, where last year machine head played the most awesome show I have ever seen and I was in the biggest circle pit ever?". I asked around to other people and they told me that you would get kicked off the festival if you try to circle pit or WOD. I felt very disappointed.
    Then Slayer played that evening and I didn't see any pit, just 5 guys...I was not in the front of the audience so probably I missed some other pits?, but with slayer you expect that the whole crowd would go crazy. They played awesome, but I was really missing the moshpits. For me it is an expression of the music. An interaction between me and the band, I experience the music far more intense when in a pit. Every person in the pit is like your brother and you laugh about it if you eccedently throw someone down and pick him/her up. You shake eachothers hands and go on. Ofcourse you could get injured, but like many said before me, drinking alcohol is dangerous too. Everyone in a pit excepts the risk of being injured.
    So you can probably feel where I am going to. Banning CP or WOD or moshpits is total bullshit in my oppinion. The greatest metal festival in world like Wacken, should understand that. If a ban will be there next year, I don't think that there will be an 4th Wacken for me, and that would be a fucking disappointment, because I really look forward each year to this festival.

    ( excuse me for my bad englisch, but my German would be far more worse :p )

    Greets,

    Erik from Holland
     
  6. McKillem

    McKillem Newbie

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    In my opinion regular or circle pits are okay, i never had any trouble avoiding those or walking out of them. (i hate pits, i dont want to be in them)
    The wall of death however is a bit of a bitch. Its massive and its hard. If you happen to be in the middle of it you are basicly screwed.
    I dont mind a bruise here and there but i hear stories about people actually dislocating shoulders and having blackouts. Metal is rough, but isent that overdooing it a bit?

    I personally would not mind a permanent ban on those things, on the count of the danger involved, and then not so much for the people who want it, but more so for the people who are involved wether they want to or not.

    Call me a bitch, but thats my 2 cents. ;)
     
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  7. McKillem

    McKillem Newbie

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    The website states that the banning of the circle pits is not a choice made by the organisation. :)
     
  8. ryanjvh

    ryanjvh Member

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    Do you know what caused the deaths though???

    Oversold the festival (Wacken would never do that since you can't buy tickets at the festival).

    So many people on the bleachers caused it to collapse, which could have been prevented by the organizers if they took the right steps of not over selling the festival.



    That's the problem I think we are facing here. We are having to ban something that hasn't been a problem in the past, due to something that organizers did to a different festival.

    It's pretty much comparing apples and oranges. Apples being the general act of moshing and Oranges being a specific event that happened and has absolutely NOTHING to do with moshing, wall of deaths, or crowd surfing.

    I think our greatest evidence to show that mosh pits are okay is the Machine Head gig last year. Maybe you had a few minor injuries (which you will get at ANY festival), but overall no one was extremely hurt.
     
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  9. Quark

    Quark W:O:A Forumsstammgast

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    I don't care what happened (I do actually, but for argument's sake I don't*)
    This is purely POLITICS, and POLITICS don't want CPs and WoDs now. THAT's what happened after the Loveparade!
    It's not a question of security for the people who are up front. It's a question of FALSE security for the people, so POLITICIANS can score again!

    (*I know from first hand what happened, I met a bloke that Sun in the station of Duisburg who told us all what happened)
     
  10. ryanjvh

    ryanjvh Member

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    I agree, it is politics, but then again that's why their having this meeting in October and more times to come after.
     
  11. Marklar

    Marklar Newbie

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    I'm also in favor of keeping statistics of injuries but with different subcategories such as when entering a circle pit or wall of death if the person injured was intoxicated or not (and how many beers he had consumed prior to injury), if it was the first time he participated in one without knowing what to expect or how to react, if he participated involuntarily etc.
    Also when talking about the safety of the metal fans at Wacken the orgas need to consider firstly the alcohol abuse that is taking place in Wacken because I'm determined that there are a lot more people showing up at the medical area due to excessive alcohol consumption than any other reason put together.
     
  12. ryanjvh

    ryanjvh Member

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    But knowing how far the "involved parties" are going with banning pits and what not chances are they'll somehow limit the amount one drinks...
     
  13. Afaceinthematrix

    Afaceinthematrix Newbie

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    I do not think that circle pits should be banned under any circumstance and I can go either way with walls of death.

    I have been to many, many metal shows and have participated in both. I feel that under no circumstance pits should be banned because they are far too easy to avoid for people who do not wish to participate. I have participated in hundreds of pits but there have been times where I have wished to not participate and standing off to the side of the pit was easy. They take up only a small portion of the entire floor.

    While I do enjoy walls of death, I can understand the arguments banning them; they are harder to avoid. While I would be sad to see them banned as they are a typical part of metal shows, I wouldn't be outraged. I would be outraged to see the pits banned, however, because there is absolutely no solid reason to ban them.

    Wacken 2011 will be my first ever Wacken (and I am flying all the way out from the USA!) and so I hope that this will be my most metal experience ever.

    -----

    Somebody also mentioned crowd surfing. I do not think that crowd surfing should be banned. Crowd surfing is an important part of metal shows and is also a lot of fun. However, I can understand that it can be annoying when somebody wearing combat boots or chains rolls over you and kicks you in the head (that has happened to me). Maybe something should be done to encourage crowd surfers to be more considerate. I never wear my chains if I'm going to be crowd surfing; I always wear soft shoes (converses work well); furthermore, I take caution in crowd surfing where there aren't too many other people doing it so that the same people aren't being bombarded all day/night.
     
  14. Misjael

    Misjael Newbie

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    I'm all for cirkle pits

    Look, Banning Circle pits and walls of death (etc) is the worst idea ever! They belong at a metalshow, end of discussion!
    Sure, crowd safety-wise it might be a bad idea, but they don't spring out of nothing, so people who don't want to be in em, can just move out the way when they hear the hordes of metalheads chanting "Wall of Death! Wall of Death! Wall of Death!" (or "circlepit")... I mean, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!
    And don't expect me to belive, that you suddently find yourself in the middle of a wall of death without knowing! (I.E. standing in the middle of an empty circle (or square) at a concert, when just a few seconds ago, everybody was stepping on your toes). If you do, you'd better leave your crack-pibe at home next time, and either start running away as fast as you can, or charge head first into the wall! :)
    Besides.. We're metalheads! We know the risks of being in the pit, and (most of us) knows to look out for oneanother within the pit (within reason ofcourse ;]). I don't think I've ever been on the floor within the pit @ Wacken for more than a few seconds, before atlest five people have gotten me back on my feet...
    Still, I am glad that most of the insane spikes are banned ;)

    So... Im all for em!

    Was there really a ban this year or is it in place from 2011? If there was, I sure as shit didn't notice :)
     
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  15. Misjael

    Misjael Newbie

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    Bitch! ;)
     
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