Circle Pits and Wall of Death

[France Woa SupporterClub]

The organizers could communicate the number of wounded after a CP or a WOD in the preceding editions of the wacken ?

The CP and WOD should not be prohibited, that belonged to the festival! we are a responsible public.

 

[Quark]

The organizers could communicate the number of wounded after a CP or a WOD in the preceding editions of the wacken ?

The CP and WOD should not be prohibited, that belonged to the festival! we are a responsible public.

Le point est: Il y a eu un massacre à Duisburg, et maintenant la politique suit TOUS LES GRANDES MANIFESTATIONS!
C'était pour ça que les WODs et CPs ont été interdits. (et l'année prochaine, tout le monde l'a oublié)

The point is: There was a massacre in Duisburg, and now politics is following ALL BIG MANIFESTATIONS!
That's why WoD's and CP's have been forbidden. (and next year, everyone's forgotten about that)

 

[Marklar]

And if you look beyond Circle Pits and Wall of Deaths, there are costs going into ANYTHING one does. Hell, those trenches at the entrance from the bus area is dangerous...especially when you're mad drunk. My point being is that no matter where you go there are always going to be risks and I believe when you try to minimize risks that people are already aware of, the risk becomes greater. Anyone agree?

Yes, all of our rational decisions in life are made by measuring the risks and benefits of a particular action and then we decide if it's worth taking it or not.
Hopefully at the security meeting in October, the banning of circle pits and wall of death for Wacken 2011 won't even come up as a subject in their agenda just because it's so absurd.

 

[harriet]

i personally don't go in CP/WOD as i'm not great with huge crowds and i'm a 5'4 girl! that said - they are an intrinsic part of metal gigs/festivals, and it feels wrong not to have them. i'm happy for every one to have them, i just don't stand near the front.

however i felt the arena part was not big enough for the amount of people there, i went to see alice cooper and was near the soundstage, i felt really ill and faint and it took me 20 minutes to push through the crowd which was shoulder to shoulder chest to back the whole way back to the exit. plus the shambles at slayer with not allowing people in for ages. i feel the arena should be better organised, with more room for people to breathe.


my suggestion would be that if the organisers ask people to buy (for 50cents or something) a MOSHER wristband, when they buy their ticket. this way they know the amount of people wanting to mosh and do CP/WOD and can make the necessary space for them. then gate off a big enough area to fit them all in and people have to show their wristband to get in. then all the people who are up for it can all go in together and rock out, and every one else can relax at the back. plus you can have extra paramedics and security etc in the mosh bit, to help anyone out who does get injured

 

[Volkan666]

I've read all the comments in this topic and there are many great ones that stated what i'd try to say so i'll just say that no good can come out of banning Wall of Deaths / Circle Pits / Mosh Pits.

Yes there are some security risks. But if measures are taken to prevent pits, far serious injuries may happen. Because the "security" guys are not always there to establish security and protect us. I've seen psychopathic grin on the bodyguards' faces while twisting arms of the crowdsurfers after they reach the end. These guys must be kept away from the crowd as much as possible. Unleashing them inside the crowd to avoid pits would definitely cause more trouble than just letting people burn out their excess energy in a rather harsh but friendly environment.

Hopefully, until next year's show everything will turn to normal.

 

[Devil's advocate]

can anyone imagine last year's Machine Head's legendary performance at Wacken without the circlepits? Could Machine Head perform just as good if everyone was sitting on chairs? Probably not

this is exactly what i mean when i talk about energy trading between crowd and bands, i totally agree with you Marklar

 

[xforeverxmetalx]

I think the problem with an idea to mark off a space for mosh pits is the fact that metal is chaotic by nature. Creating space or order in that setting would make me feel like a five year old being told where I can go and what I can do, and I don't think I'm alone.

In my opinion, the most logical way to go about it is to actually keep records of the people showing up with injuries to the medical area. Keep track of what happens where and how serious it is. Then use that as hard data to make and evaluate security decisions. If there was evidence shown that a significant amount of people were sustaining severe injuries in circle pits and walls of death, I think people would be more understanding of a ban or some other solution. Right now they're just guessing.

 

[Fuckin' Yo]

In my opinion, the CP and WOD should not be banned, it's what makes the strength of a festival like Wacken...

How can you imagine a Machine Fuckin' Head concert without circle pit ?!! Or a HxC concert without Mosh Pit ?!!! http://woafor.wacken.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

It's called "Wall Of Death" not "Wall of hugs"

There is minimal risk of being injured, the pit are the most of time very friendly.
I would like to know the actual number of wounded in Wacken.

I bought my ticket for the next edition, but if this ban is implemented, there will be no 4 wacken for me.

Sorry for my bad English ^^

 

[Devil's advocate]

i have a question for the organization... why, while you are banning circle pits and walls of death, do you put a huge fantastic CP on the WOA 2009 dvd?

 

[unholyguillaume]

Hi guys

first, sorry for my english, I'm french, and I just do what I can...

I personally think that it a very bad idea to forbid Walls Of Death and Circle pits in Wacken. I think Wacken is the best Extreme festival in Europe, and maybe in the whole world, and as Morbid Angel says, it is extreme music for extreme people. Pits are part of a metal live experience, as beer . Circle pits can be violent, but basically, it is just a friendly kind of violence, if someone falls, or doesn't feel right, there is allways another to help him. Most part of the time, Pits don't begin without a reason, and the bands on stage often demand it, the crowd just respond with some action. I also think that in every live concert, not only in Metal, some people are wounded, it is the risks of such a festival, and those who take part in Walls of Death, or Circle pits know these risks.
If the organisers forbid Circle pits, the crowd will continue, and maybe will do more and more, because prohibition just provoques reject. Could you imagine a live from Exodus, or Slayer without action??? impossible !!!

 

[unholyguillaume]

i have a question for the organization... why, while you are banning circle pits and walls of death, do you put a huge fantastic CP on the WOA 2009 dvd?

Yeah, it is an enormous Circle Pit, we can only see it at Wacken!!! Heaven Shall Burn had a great one too!

 

[unholyguillaume]

i have a question for the organization... why, while you are banning circle pits and walls of death, do you put a huge fantastic CP on the WOA 2009 dvd?

YES!

good selection of bands for 2011, for my part i'll add Dimmu Borgir, Marduk, Nile, Behemoth, Epica, Exodus, Destruction, Sodom..........METALLICA, MEGADETH

 

[Nekobibu]

I almost never take part in circlepits or walls of death... yet I really can't advocate banning them! They are, as numerous people have said before, a part of our culture and I can perfectly understand the disappointment, for the audience as well as for bands, if they're not allowed anymore in Wacken...

Yes, they can be dangerous... but then again, anything can, really...

I have never felt threatened in any way by a circlepit or a wall of death, be it in Wacken or anywhere else (smaller or bigger events... doesn't make a difference to me). If I don't want to take part, I simply don't... but that might be because I'm never drunk enough to stand right there like a zombie waiting to be crushed in the pit, heh.
So would you consider banning alcohol, maybe? I'm POSITIVE that would also reduce the amount of people hurt anywhere in the world...

Now I would really be interested in figures: how many people got wounded during WOA 2009? How many during WOA 2010, when those lovable activities were banned? Was there a real improvement? If there was, I would understand the will to ban them, but I would really feel sorry for the people who enjoy taking part in them on a regular basis...

Now about crowdsurfing... I like it, from time to time. I don't mind carrying people either. What I hate is those fat and drunk fuckers who are so oblivious to anybody else in the crowd that they don't make any effort whatsoever to be the least possible nuisance to others. Just pathetic and heavy lumps of drunken flesh spreading their legs, kicking people's faces in their wake. My dream would be to have only "educated" crowdsurfers, people who know they are given a kind of favor being carried towards the stage and are respectful to the girls and guys raising their arms for them when they might as well concentrate on the show they're trying to attend... Of course, that's just a dream, but I wanted to make my point about that.

Anyway, see you in WOA 2011, rain or shine, ban or no ban!

 

[Quark]

Yes, all of our rational decisions in life are made by measuring the risks and benefits of a particular action and then we decide if it's worth taking it or not.
Hopefully at the security meeting in October, the banning of circle pits and wall of death for Wacken 2011 won't even come up as a subject in their agenda just because it's so absurd.

After Duisburg, it will. Politics are involved. Nothing you can do about it.

 

[Quark]

i have a question for the organization... why, while you are banning circle pits and walls of death, do you put a huge fantastic CP on the WOA 2009 dvd?
*image deleted*

Love Parade rings a bell????
Same country?