Wacken Post-C19 speculation thread

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30 Sep. 2016
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With this year off the table and plans already under
way for the next WOA, it's definitely going to be one
to remember. That is, if it's allowed to move forward
next year depending on the global situation. A few
things that the WOA crew is gonna have to look at
before next year.

------------------------------

1.) Attendance and audience capacity

So officially, attendees are at 75K, right? Not counting
staff, security, and all the bands themselves. Since
there's like ten stages of different sizes, it's not like
they magically squeeze 75K people in front of each
stage. Those of us who've attended in the past have
probably tried catching certain bands, only to see that
they closed off access because the area close to the
stage got full(i.e. the infield, circus tent). Pretty
sure they'd sooner cancel the festival before expecting
all 75K of us to stand 2 meters(that's six feet for us
Americans) apart. I don't even wanna think about what
the campgrounds would look like if we're expected to
maintain social distancing between tents and other
camps! They'd have to consider expanding the WOA
festival grounds to pull that off! lol Considering the
size of the festival grounds already, I see a snowflake's
chance in hell of expansion.

2.) E-Ticket exchange

This has been a sore spot for many attendees. Primarily
when they have a ticket, plans fall through for one
reason or another and they can no longer attend. It's

been a long time coming, but it looks like the WOA crew
are FINALLY addressing this and moving to an E-Ticket
format.

I can understand their hesitancy going E-Ticket. Not
familiar with how it works over there in regards to
ticket skalpers, but it's a BIG problem here. So big that
it's enough to stop you from even attending a big-name
show. I could bend your ear on the history of the ticket
industry but I'll save that for another day. The bigger
ticket companies over here are LiveNation, AXS and
TicketMaster(who we refer to as TicketBastard, and
all their bastard fees). They'll use ticket "reseller" sites
like StubHub to sell tickets that are significantly marked
up. Concert A, was selling tickets for $75, now it's up to
$250 on StubHub. ...and that's on the first day tickets
went on sale. What'll really grind my gears, is when a
band like Iron Maiden announces a tour, there'll be
FOUR different presale codes for the same show. One
for the fan club four days before public sale. One code
three days before sale for being a Visa/MC carrier. You'll
get a code from TicketBastard two days before public
sales. You'll get a code from Fuckerberg for having an
account on FuckFace the day before sales. By the time
public sale starts, General Admission/Ground Floor is
gone, decent seats are gone, and only nosebleed tickets
are available. When Iron Maiden came around last year,
they played Oakland Arena(where the Golden State
Warriors play). I got tickets through a TicketBastard
code. Those tickets went on sale TEN months in advance
of their tour. Tickets go on sale 10am Fri... by 10:02am,
Skalp-Bots cleared out the box office and by 10:03am
those same tickets are up on StubHub.

With Wacken going to the E-Ticket format, I'm hoping
that maybe they'll develop something "in-house." What
I mean is, set up an in-house ticket exchange that keeps
the TicketBastards, the LiveNations and the StubHub
skalpers OUT. I heard that the Wacken organizers can
deactivate tickets when they come up on Ebay or on
similar sites, Burning Man does the same thing.

The travel restrictions imposed currently, I would've
been disqualified from attending if this year was still
on. California currently looking like New York City and
Rome back in April. I would've been stuck holding 2
tickets, that'd be $500 down the drain. If there was a way
we could exchange them and get our bread back without
a big hassle, that'd save us all a nervous breakdown. For
the record, yes I'm aiming to go next year. So long as
western civilization hasn't collapsed before then. Gonna
cross my fingers that Mercyful Fate and Sodom are added
back on.

3.) Vulnerable population

With C19 having a harsh effect on those in the Age 60
and up category, quite a few of the bands we wanna
see have members who fall into that group. Judas
Priest, Iron Maiden, Running Wild, King Diamond... even
Body Count, Ice T is about 63 years old. Dave Mustaine
turns 59 next month. The two core members that are
in Blue Oyster Cult are in their mid-70's(...and they can
still play circles around people a third their age). Wacken
will have to take a hard look at this. Many of the bands
that we know and love, are likely gonna have to retire
within the next couple years. That is of course, if current
circumstances haven't forced an early retirement already.

4.) Medical Staff/Response

They've already got a pretty solid set-up onsite as it is
when it comes to first aid or an emergency response.
After C19, they'll obviously be having to review their
set-up and bring a few things up to date.

Even before this year, it's a very good idea if you or
someone in your camp has a first aid kit. Not even
just band-aids. Aspirin, extra ear plugs, cough drops,
etc.

------------------------------

Anyone else see comedy, in that this year was supposed
to have a Mayan/Incan theme. But it was scrapped due
to a cataclysmic global event?!! Suppose the Mayan
calendar was only off by eight years! Those of you who
cannot attend for next year's Horror theme, tune into
your evening news broadcast. You'll find plenty of blood,
devastation, death, war and HORROR nightly! Just set
your TV on mute, and put on the "Consuming Impulse"
record by Pestilence on full volume. Commence
headbanging!!!

In closing, feel free to add onto that list. So what will
become of Wacken post C19?? DISCUSS!!!

- Sepulchral Voice
 
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Quark

Der Beste
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Er, actually, I don't know. And to be honest, I don't think ANYONE knows yet!
There's talk about a vaccin, that should be available in November, December, but others talk about the beginning of next year! It's all so vague.
And that's just the point! It is vague! No one knows what will happen in 2021!

Let's just see what will happen in 2020! Some bands are slowly starting to give concerts, be it very restricted!
 
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agresionpower

W:O:A Metalgod
22 Juni 2005
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Er, actually, I don't know. And to be honest, I don't think ANYONE knows yet!
There's talk about a vaccin, that should be available in November, December, but others talk about the beginning of next year! It's all so vague.
And that's just the point! It is vague! No one knows what will happen in 2021!

Let's just see what will happen in 2020! Some bands are slowly starting to give concerts, be it very restricted!

I honestly think there won't be a wacken 2021 if there isn't a vaccine by early 2021. I mean, before these kind of big gatherings are safe to organise atleast 60% of people should be vaccinated.
And to have that many people vaccinated by august 2021 the vaccine must be available quite soon.
If that doesn't happen I think there won't be a festival season in 2021.
 
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Darkfang

W:O:A Metalhead
I honestly think there won't be a wacken 2021 if there isn't a vaccine by early 2021. I mean, before these kind of big gatherings are safe to organise atleast 60% of people should be vaccinated.
And to have that many people vaccinated by august 2021 the vaccine must be available quite soon.
If that doesn't happen I think there won't be a festival season in 2021.
I'm thinking the same way.. Also, this apply to all indoor venue as well, so no onsite live show until summer next year. A metal show without a mosh pit is less fun.
 

agresionpower

W:O:A Metalgod
22 Juni 2005
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I'm thinking the same way.. Also, this apply to all indoor venue as well, so no onsite live show until summer next year. A metal show without a mosh pit is less fun.

Yeah I think Eindhoven metal meeting will be canceled too, which would suck since it's the only festival left.
It's always in mid december and I have been to all 11 editions so far.
 

Quark

Der Beste
19 Juli 2004
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Yeah I think Eindhoven metal meeting will be canceled too, which would suck since it's the only festival left.
It's always in mid december and I have been to all 11 editions so far.
I hope it won't, but with winter, and the rise of ordinary coronaviruses, e.g. the simple cold, I'm afraid as well.

I still hope to attend the Meh Suff Metal Festival though. So far, it looks promising, even in COVID-19 times.
 
30 Sep. 2016
63
29
33
North Bay Area, California
Er, actually, I don't know. And to be honest, I don't think ANYONE knows yet!
There's talk about a vaccin, that should be available in November, December, but others talk about the beginning of next year! It's all so vague.
And that's just the point! It is vague! No one knows what will happen in 2021!

Let's just see what will happen in 2020! Some bands are slowly starting to give concerts, be it very restricted!

Besides the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally over in South
Dakota, there's been virtually no shows happening
stateside. Granted that some of the flyover states
are trying to push through reopening businesses
and larger events, it hasn't been without problems.

Earlier today, I was reading that El Presidente Putin
found a C19 vaccine. Knowing his penchant for having
to make a spectacle of everything, I can only assume
he's withholding it until he can get a camera crew
set up to film him riding on horseback up FDR Drive
to personally deliver it to the UN Building in New
York.


I honestly think there won't be a wacken 2021 if there isn't a vaccine by early 2021. I mean, before these kind of big gatherings are safe to organise atleast 60% of people should be vaccinated.
And to have that many people vaccinated by august 2021 the vaccine must be available quite soon.
If that doesn't happen I think there won't be a festival season in 2021.

Realistically, they're gonna need to have progress
by the holiday season. If they don't have a working
vaccine by next March then it's safe to say that
Wacken 2021 will likely have to be scrapped as well.
If proof of vaccination was to be required upon
entry, that could force some folks to have to forfeit
going. Since depending on where they're coming
from, a vaccine may not be available to them. I
don't see Wacken magically getting involved in the
pharmaceutical industry to personally administer
vaccinations to us upon entry. (for an extra 20
Euros, you'll get your VIP Vaccination personally
administered by David Lee Roth who also happens
to be a NY state certified EMT! Rock on!!!)



I'm thinking the same way.. Also, this apply to all indoor venue as well, so no onsite live show until summer next year. A metal show without a mosh pit is less fun.

Hard to imagine a "socially distanced" Metal show.
It just seems like such an oxymoron. Freakin' "safety
dance," lol

- Sepulchral Voice

 

Quark

Der Beste
19 Juli 2004
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Earlier today, I was reading that El Presidente Putin
found a C19 vaccine. Knowing his penchant for having
to make a spectacle of everything, I can only assume
he's withholding it until he can get a camera crew
set up to film him riding on horseback up FDR Drive
to personally deliver it to the UN Building in New
York.
I wouldn't get your hopes too high on Putin. He's just skipped phase III of the test phase (test on a large group of people, to see its effect(s)), and blew the whisle because he's SOOO desperately in need of positive news! After the things he did (Syria, Turkey, Crimea, the Bellarussian elections the other day)
So no, not a single dime of trust for this so called "event" for me!
 

agresionpower

W:O:A Metalgod
22 Juni 2005
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Chances are that the russian is actually working, like a couple of others that are currently being test are probably working.
But is it worth the risk? I don't think so. and I guess many with me.

Currently I think chances are quite high there is a vaccine by early next year.
But than the big question is, will there be enough in time to have big events by next summer.

I think there's a 50% chance of that happening.

But then you have to wonder, who's willing to take the financial risk of organising something that has a 50% chance of being cancelled?

I'm pretty sure no insurance company would be willing to give you an "pandemic cancellation" insurance for a big event next year. (if they will ever take that risk again).

I
don't see Wacken magically getting involved in the
pharmaceutical industry to personally administer
vaccinations to us upon entry. (for an extra 20
Euros, you'll get your VIP Vaccination personally
administered by David Lee Roth who also happens
to be a NY state certified EMT! Rock on!!!)



would be cool though :p

I wouldn't get your hopes too high on Putin. He's just skipped phase III of the test phase (test on a large group of people, to see its effect(s)), and blew the whisle because he's SOOO desperately in need of positive news! After the things he did (Syria, Turkey, Crimea, the Bellarussian elections the other day)
So no, not a single dime of trust for this so called "event" for me!

I think he skipped phase II as well...
 

agresionpower

W:O:A Metalgod
22 Juni 2005
79.257
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Almere, Holland
No, he didn't.. if he'd done that, it won't be approved by the EMA/FDA later. That's compulsory, if you want to bring any medication on the market.

arstechnica report this yesterday
"
The World Health Organization, which tracks international COVID-19 vaccine development efforts, lists Sputnik V as being only in the first of three main clinical trial phases. Generally, Phase I clinical trials for vaccines are small—typically only involving dozens of people—and only assess the safety of the candidate. Phase II trials may involve hundreds of people and look further at safety, dosing, and the immune responses that the vaccine triggers, which may hint at the vaccine’s possible efficacy. Then there is the Phase III trial, which often involves tens of thousands of people and looks at whether the vaccine protects against infection and disease.

It appears that Russia has skipped Phase III—and possibly has not finished Phase II yet."
 
30 Sep. 2016
63
29
33
North Bay Area, California
arstechnica report this yesterday:
"The World Health Organization, which tracks international COVID-19 vaccine development efforts, lists Sputnik V as being only in the first of three main clinical trial phases. Generally, Phase I clinical trials for vaccines are small—typically only involving dozens of people—and only assess the safety of the candidate. Phase II trials may involve hundreds of people and look further at safety, dosing, and the immune responses that the vaccine triggers, which may hint at the vaccine’s possible efficacy. Then there is the Phase III trial, which often involves tens of thousands of people and looks at whether the vaccine protects against infection and disease.

It appears that Russia has skipped Phase III—and possibly has not finished Phase II yet."

Cutting corners wouldn't surprise me. I mean, there's
that instinct that a lot of people are born with about
always wanting to be "first." I suppose history loves a
winner. However in these circumstances, it's far more
important that the vaccine works.

------------------------------

From Scott Ian(Anthrax, Motor Sister, ex-S.O.D., ex-Damnocracy):
(SOURCE: https://www.hardcorehumanism.com/006-scott-ian/)

"We never would have electively, as a band, said, 'Let's take two years off.' It's not something we would ever have done. Financially, it's not something we could afford to do even. But even just on every level, that conversation — 'Let's take a hiatus' — that's not gonna happen. We've been forced into that situation. So if there's one silver lining about this for me, [it's] I get to be home with my family for longer than I've ever been. That's awesome. So figuring out ways to work with everything going on on the planet and being able to stay creative and stay busy and work and make things work financially, it was kind of like starting over, in a weird way, four months ago.

"All right, what I do is not essential, which that was not hard to come to grips with," he continued. "I understand. I get to be home with my family. Now I get to do this full time. And then how are we gonna make it work with the band so financially we could keep our heads above water as well? Because who knows how long this is gonna be? We're gonna be the last ones to go back to work. So, figure it out.

"There's a part of me now that's in those same shoes I was in when I was 17 years old, because it's trying to figure out, how are we going to do this? Luckily for us, this year was kind of an off year from touring anyway, because we're writing a record, and the plan was to have it out at the end of this year. That's all changed. We're hoping next summer. But it's still a crapshoot. Nobody knows. Everyone's saying everything's gonna happen again in '21 — maybe.

"In my mind, I'm not going back to work, probably, till, I'm thinking, '22," Ian said. "Realistically, that's when things will maybe start to get somewhere back to normal, for my world, as a touring musician. So now it's become a case of, how do I keep things running for the next two years — with the luxury of being home. Because if it was up to me, I'd just hang around and jam with my son all day long. But now I have to be able to have the balance of I get to just be home and I get to go to the beach and hang out. And it becomes very easy to do nothing. And when I say nothing, I don't mean nothing in a lazy way. I mean, not have anything to do with my band and literally be on vacation from my work. So it's almost like a retraining. Even doing interviews, I kind of, at one point, said, 'I'm not doing anything.' You know what? I have a chance now to literally take a break. And I did. We kind of did. And then we started doing these 'Instajam' collaboration things online and whatnot and slowly but surely getting our feet back in the game, and I'm sure that'll pick up over the months.


"But I'll tell you what: I love being home," he admitted. "I love not traveling. I love not getting on a plane. I was looking at our schedule, 'cause it was all on my calendar. I was supposed to be in Europe for the last two weeks playing festivals. I was, like, 'Oh my God. I am so glad I am not in the Ukraine right now.' Imagine there was no pandemic. I'm literally, like, I'm home right now, and I'm sitting in my living room hanging out. Just the idea of that, it's never happened. We've never canceled shows. It was out my hands. And it was nice to have no power. For kind of the first time, it's all out of my hands. It's, like, 'Hey, there's nothing I can do. [I'm] just gonna hang out here with my family. You tell me when it's okay to come back to work.'"

------------------------------

He's not wrong, it's probably more realistic that
most bands aim for 2022 before doing any major
touring outside of their home region. Besides the
occasional one-off gig. Because circumstances
could change within a matter of a couple days.

On the flip side, though. A lot of bands that are
benched and off the road, they could have more
time in the studio. Fingers crossed that by next
Spring we start seeing a new renaissance of
killer records.

- Sepulchral Voice
 
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30 Sep. 2016
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Yikes, things are not looking good for Summer fests this year. They already
scrapped Glastonbury. Hellfest is already considering whether or not to
pull the plug.

------------------------------

Excerpt from the New York Times

(SOURCE: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/arts/music/glastonbury-canceled.html)

For weeks, Glastonbury’s organizers had been warning that the festival was at risk of cancellation because of uncertainties around the pandemic, with insurers unwilling to provide cover. In December, Emily Eavis did a string of interviews with British news organizations in which she asked the government to create its own insurance scheme to cover costs if a last minute cancellation became necessary.

“What we definitely can’t afford to risk is getting too far into the process of next year, only for it to be snatched away from us,” she told the BBC.

Oliver Dowden, Britain’s culture minister, said in a tweet on Thursday that Glastonbury’s decision was understandable as bringing fans together “in just a few months looks very difficult to make safe.” The government was “looking at problems around getting insurance,” he added.

This month, Austria launched an insurance scheme to cover events that cannot be rescheduled, including music festivals. Germany’s finance ministry recently said it has plans to start covering cultural events, but Britain only has a similar scheme for film and TV shoots despite pressure from politicians and musicians.

The decision to cancel Glastonbury again has caused concern across Europe, where music festivals have an almost mythical status. British politicians often like to be seen at Glastonbury, a sign of its importance in the cultural calendar.

“It’s sent a very bad signal,” Olivier Garnier, a spokesman for Hellfest, one of France’s largest events, said in a telephone interview. Hellfest hosts about 60,000 heavy metal fans each year and its 2021 iteration, scheduled for June, is already sold out.

On Monday, Hellfest sent a three-page letter to Roselyne Bachelot, France’s culture minister, asking for certainty on whether the event can occur, and suggesting that the festival could test attendees for the virus upon arrival.


On Tuesday, Bachelot dismissed the idea that testing would be enough to allow festivals to occur. “It’s fanciful!’,” she told a French parliamentary committee, adding that festivals were an obvious potential site of transmission with people singing, drinking and dancing together.

------------------------------

The surgeon general over here is saying that live events and pro sports
with audiences likely won't return until the Autumn at least. Now that
we've got a new president in the director's chair, he's pledging to
vaccinate 100 million Americans in his first 100 days in office(that's
roughly about a third of the US population last time I checked). A bold
boast, but if we get even to two-thirds of that by early May, it's still
a lot better than now.


Germany is supposedly making plans to cover insurance for "cultural
events." However, what qualifies as a "cultural event" could possibly
get outta hand. Could it mean, just cover Oktoberfest and nothing
else? Or do they cover everything whether it's
Obktoberfest or a
Snooker tournament? Wacken or a Star Trek convention?!

From a business standpoint, it would make sense for Wacken to
cancel the 2021 edition. Because of the uncertainty of whether
bands and fans will be able to travel internationally by then. We've
already seen mutations like the one going around Britain. There's
reports of mutations being found in Japan, Brazil, even reports of
a mutation from the area of San Diego and Los Angeles that have
been popping up since the holidays. Realistically speaking, getting
vaccinated, travel restrictions, insurance, added expenses and all
the other hurdles that have been set up since all this crap started
over a year ago now, getting any Summer festival to move forward
this year would be a stretch. It's a big financial gamble that neither
Hellfest or Wacken should take.

Wacken should definitely do another virtual festival. It was the
top online live-streamed event from last year. Even if it's free
for fans to view, they'd have sponsors signing up to advertise in
minutes of announcing another Wacken World Wide. It's also the
double benefit of showcasing the WOA crew being at the forefront
of tech for live events. The XR-stage they had definitely had it's
learning curves for trying to get into the "audience." I could see
them expanding on that idea for the fortunate few that are
equipped with VR headsets. Hopefully, they can make it work with
something more affordable. Like the Google Cardboard VR glasses!
lol I'm already picturing drunk Wacken fans at home making their
own Do-It-Yourself VR glasses out of empty beer crates!



- Sepulchral Voice
 

agresionpower

W:O:A Metalgod
22 Juni 2005
79.257
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Almere, Holland
Yeah I doubt we'll have a festival summer this year.
And even if there are festivals I wonder if international guests will be an option.

The closer we're getting to decision time the less likely it seems to become.
 

Hemmer

Newbie
8 Okt. 2017
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I can't imagine how it could work this year. How far down the rabbit hole will W:O:A go before pulling the trigger on canceling?

I do not know the business end of festivals at all, but do worry they won't survive the financial cost if they hold out until April or May when planning and payments are well underway.