Cheers Germany! One of the few EU countries with the courage to "just say NO!"

[Shukri]

reality check!

We don't hate AMERICANS. Most of us have friends from the USA, and ALL of us LOVE a great many US bands. Let's get something straight to everyone who says we're "anti-American" ...

... we're not seething with anger because we're anti-democracy or anti-freedom or anti-USA, as Bush and Co. would like the world to believe. After all, they like to conveniently label all their opponents as Communists or Terrorists or Fundamentalists or what Ists are flavour of the month. We're pissed off because we feel the USA isn't democratic ENOUGH, they're not freedom loving ENOUGH, and they sure as hell aren't peaceful ENOUGH.

But let's also be clear on one thing - many of the good arguments AGAINST Bush are coming from people inside the USA. So let's not run around shouting "fuck the USA" - because then we end up being as bad as our opponents. Let's target out anger in a constructive way - "fuck the RIGHT WING REPUBLICAN MORAL MAJORITY WARMONGERING OIL STEALING FREEDOM STOMPING fuckers that stole the White House". And please, I know there are Americans on this forum - let's make it clear that we're not against them. We're only against the people who are trying to get us into World War III.

PEACE - whether Bush likes it or not!

 

[Supercharger]

You're missing the point here Blackwizzard. I was only talking about the A-bombs on Japan at the end of WW II and not about the current crisis.

Moreover in every war there will always be innocent civilians. It's in the nature of the beast sadly. There's simply no thing as a "clean" war. And no I'm not okey when Iraq bombs the US or one of the other European countries or any country at

 

[Kroppus]

Shukri is right. Even if i still go around saying "Fuck the USA" i still got lot of friends that's american. And Yes, i even have a lot of friends in Texas, just so that's said. I've never claimed that americans in general are stupid. What i said was that most of them don't see the world in a bigger picture than their own state.

What i hate about the USA is the coutnry, wht they do to pacify their own citizen. I'm anti-government, and that's for all of them. To me government has nothing to do with democracy at all. Since i'm norwegian i dislike Sweden, still i have a lot of good friends and som ex-girlfriends from sweden.
I think that when most of us says that we dislike or hate that country, we're talking about the leaders and the system\government. It's not the citizens.

 

[Blackwizard69]

Of cousre what Kroppus says is true. I lived in San Francisco for 8 years and I love the place and the people as well! I have tons of buddies from the States and obviously I love hundreds of US bands! And if I have to say it all, I also like and envy some aspects of the American way of life. However, I do dislike greatly their arrogance, and generally I'm just shocked that such an important nation like the US is uncapable of producing a better leader than somone like Bush! His level of intelligence and culture is inadequate to the role he has, and that would count for any nation. But in this specific case, besides being inadequate, he is also very dangerous, because decisions that have an impact on all of us pass through his hands, need I add more?

 

[Blackwizard69]

@ Supercharger:

What I meant is that before you said that Japan in WWII was not totally innocent, and that in a sense they were asking for it. But Pearl Harbour was an army objective, whereas the bomb on Hiroshima killed almost exclusively civilians. So I think that in one way or another both sides in any war or confrontation will always have a bit of reason and a bit of fault, but that in no occasion should massacres of innocents be justified, under no circumstances whatsoever. The US should have found another way to retaliate against the Japs, I don't know how (fortunately it's not my job), but the use of the bomb is unjustifiable.

So all I'm saying is that if we somehow justify the use of the bomb by the US in WWII, we're implying that Saddam would be justified to retailate in the same way in case he were to be attacked. That doesn't mean I'm saying you're ok with it (I know you're not!), I'm just saying that justifying in any way what happened back then can be a dangerous excuse for these guys today.

Anyway, thank god we have Metal, and that whenever we have enough of all this shit all we need to do is put on one of our favorite cds and isolate ourselves! Imagine all those people that can't do that. I feel so sorry for them...