TOBIAS SAMMET’S AVANTASIA – OUT THIS FRIDAY!!!

[Kate McGee]

Well I've got a very distinct concept of Metal as well...but when I look at "metalcore" there's not much difference to my concept of "metal". Just that "core" approach to the whole music (hope you know what I mean - that very special sound of metalcore, hardcore, x-core, y-core, z-core...) - which is something that I usually dislike and that tells me "oh, that must be metalcore". The "thrash" approach to metal is something that I usually dislike as well. Both sorts of music just don't seem to fascinate me in any way. But in both cases I would never say that one is metal and therefore good, whilst the other is no metal and therefore bad. It's both heavy music which has shitloads of metal elements, so I guess one has the right to call both styles metal.
Why don't you just leave them alone with their haircuts; as long as they don't do you any harm and the music is related to metal (which there is hopefully no doubt about) - why not let them play in Wacken.

 

[MetalViking]

Well I've got a very distinct concept of Metal as well...but when I look at "metalcore" there's not much difference to my concept of "metal". Just that "core" approach to the whole music (hope you know what I mean - that very special sound of metalcore, hardcore, x-core, y-core, z-core...) - which is something that I usually dislike and that tells me "oh, that must be metalcore". The "thrash" approach to metal is something that I usually dislike as well. Both sorts of music just don't seem to fascinate me in any way. But in both cases I would never say that one is metal and therefore good, whilst the other is no metal and therefore bad. It's both heavy music which has shitloads of metal elements, so I guess one has the right to call both styles metal.
Why don't you just leave them alone with their haircuts; as long as they don't do you any harm and the music is related to metal (which there is hopefully no doubt about) - why not let them play in Wacken.

Metalcore sucks
Its an embarrassment to see shite bands on a band list to a "metal" festival

 

[MetalViking]

Like Iron Maiden?

Maiden sell their records to a whole range of people, metalcore sells to what?
12 year olds

 

[Kate McGee]

Maiden sell their records to a whole range of people, metalcore sells to what?
12 year olds

I know loads of people who are for example in their late twenties and still like metalcore. AND metal.

 

[Spindelta]

Why don't you just leave them alone with their haircuts; as long as they don't do you any harm and the music is related to metal (which there is hopefully no doubt about) - why not let them play in Wacken.

The music is related to metal. Yes. So would you take the same approach to nu-metal? Should we have Limp Bizkit on the True Metal stage? After all, they have drums and guitar. Or maybe not, because it's a dead fucking trend like metalcore will be in a couple of years when the kids are bored of it.

I'm not going to suggest that Wacken is turning it's back on metal, after all, there still are big DM bands getting booked. But how many black metal bands played last year, and strictly speaking, that doesn't count Immortal. Even if you did count them, there were what? Two or three? And before last minute cancellations there were about eight or so core bands.

And that's not even the worst of it. For me, it's the atmosphere. I've been to Ozzfest, and I've been to Download. For the most part, they were both shit. Hordes of kids getting away from their parents at the weekend does not make for a fun time. I'm not going to lie, I derive tremendous satisfaction from being at a festival which feels like home to me. And a festival willing to book BFMV, KsE and Hatebreed is not home to me anymore.

 

[Kate McGee]

The music is related to metal. Yes. So would you take the same approach to nu-metal? Should we have Limp Bizkit on the True Metal stage? After all, they have drums and guitar. Or maybe not, because it's a dead fucking trend like metalcore will be in a couple of years when the kids are bored of it.

I'm not going to suggest that Wacken is turning it's back on metal, after all, there still are big DM bands getting booked. But how many black metal bands played last year, and strictly speaking, that doesn't count Immortal. Even if you did count them, there were what? Two or three? And before last minute cancellations there were about eight or so core bands.

And that's not even the worst of it. For me, it's the atmosphere. I've been to Ozzfest, and I've been to Download. For the most part, they were both shit. Hordes of kids getting away from their parents at the weekend does not make for a fun time. I'm not going to lie, I derive tremendous satisfaction from being at a festival which feels like home to me. And a festival willing to book BFMV, KsE and Hatebreed is not home to me anymore.

Why should anybody want to book Limp Bizkit for Wacken? There's hardly any metal fan I know who likes Limp Bizkit - whilst there are many who like metalcore bands. So I don't think LB is a good comparison. Even apart from the fact that their sound is really different to what I think of as "metal". Metalcore bands are much closer to my usual concept of metal, differing from it only in a few details, not much more than black metal for example.

I can find about five or six black metal bands in 2007...and a few who mix black metal with folk stuff. (Why don't you want to count Immortal? if you had said "Dimmu Borgir" instead of "Immortal" I would have understood you...) That's just what people want to hear nowadays. Time will come when their interest will come back to other styles in metal. It's not about what you like or what I like (I'm not annoyed if they book many thrash metal bands although I just don't like that stuff). It's about what many others like, about new developments happening in metal and related styles of music, and I don't think there's any use in getting excited because of those three (?) core bands at the moment. You know, stress isn't good for your health.

But you wouldn't even notice those bands if you didn't willingly get that upset about them.
And in my opinion Wacken has always been about kids going there to have some fun - kids between 15 and 40. I doubt that the guys who organise the festival are interested in attracting people under, let's say, 20. Those kids tend to have less money to spend at the festival...
I still haven't really found much of a difference between the crowds of WOA 2007 and 2002. Except that the amount of people seems to have doubled. Which is another problem.

 

[Spindelta]

There's hardly any metal fans I know who like metalcore. But thats my point. Limp Bizkit is completely analogous, in my opinion. But why not take Slipknot instead, shit, their last album was more metalcore than nu-metal anyway. Would they be welcome? They have tremolo picking and blast beats. Is that all it takes to be metal?

Personally, I saw a lot of guys wearing black metal shirts at Wacken this year, and there sure were a shit load of stalls selling BM merch. I think that Wacken could really please that crowd a whole lot more. By booking more proper BM bands, not halfway stuff like Secrets Of The Moon (ok, not bad per se, but not exactly black metal). As for Immortal, well you either believe that black metal is purely an aesthetic, or you believe it's a state of mind. I don't doubt Immortal's ability to hold down a tune, but black metal is more than that to me. Which why I'm a bit shocked to read that you consider BM about as different from metal as metalcore. Sarcofago sit pretty near my definition of metal, which might as well be a different genre to the polished shit we're talking about.

But I guess that we're not going to agree on this. I find it sad that Wacken would more likely book Job For A Cowboy than Asphyx. I guess some people don't.

 

[cyber999]

hm..

i have to be honest, i used to like metalcore, not anymore because i got sick of it!

and i think that the wacken organizers are just trying to please everybody!
i would hate to see wacken turned into a download festival or ozzfest

 

[cyber999]

how many commercial bands were in wacken 05?

 

[Kate McGee]

Which why I'm a bit shocked to read that you consider BM about as different from metal as metalcore.

No, I didn't mean different from metal - was a bit hard to express that in English. I meant BM is in some points different from that abstract concept I have when I think of metal in general. Which has something to do with the instruments and the way they are played, certain typical rhythms, and a special way of thinking and living, and so on. I couldn't even clearly define it if I tried, but I just know when I encounter metal.
And considering black metal, there are of course many things that coincide with my abstract concept, but also some things that I consider as unusual when I compare it with my personal concept. But when I look at what is usually called metalcore, there are also many things which are close to what I think of as "typically metal", and some that differ from it. This was not meant to state that black metal might be no metal, neither was it meant to say that metalcore is definitely metal - it's just that I have a concept of "average metal" which both musical styles fit in partially, but not wholly.
A bit too philosophical maybe?

 

[Kate McGee]

how many commercial bands were in wacken 05?

I'd say five or six for 2005. What is your opinion?




edit: Do you think ALL metalcore bands are commercial?

 

[cyber999]

I'd say five or six for 2005. What is your opinion?




edit: Do you think ALL metalcore bands are commercial?

well maybe the first bands werent and then the press comercialized this kind of metal.. fucking record labels they only care about money!

 

[Kate McGee]

well maybe the first bands werent and then the press comercialized this kind of metal.. fucking record labels they only care about money!

Well, they need some money to buy food just like you and me...

 

[Spindelta]

This was not meant to state that black metal might be no metal, neither was it meant to say that metalcore is definitely metal - it's just that I have a concept of "average metal" which both musical styles fit in partially, but not wholly.
A bit too philosophical maybe?

Not at all. I have a similar understanding, except that the black metal ethic of 'making music for the pure passion and fucking the profits and popularity' sits close to my concept of the heart of metal. Which is why I suppose I'm so averse to core bands. Trendy haircuts, tight shirts and the myspace scene are not my idea of rock and roll. I'm not sure if the sugary-bullshit of bands like BFMV is worse than the cleancut 'extreme' bands like The Black Dahlia Murder. Both types seem to be lacking in soul, to me.

Regardless, the booking of these bands is a continuation of a very bad trend over the last three years. It only bothers me because it's completely pointless. If people wanted to see some extreme bands mixed with popular shit, they could go to Hellfest in France. Sure, Korn sharing a stage with Immortal, wonderful stuff.

 

[cyber999]

i guess wacken allways book a couple of commercial bands.. so its no a big deal!
when those are on, go to the metal market spendding money or something