what is a nazi band doing at WOA 2004?

[Shukri]

let's not blame all Americans for all problems

Originally posted by mugabe
There is one (1) nazi regime in the world at the present: that of Israel, backed by the U.S., and I believe racism is only a minor issue there. Not having any American bands playing would be a stronger stand against fascism, I think.

1) Israel is not nazi. Their government is violent and racist, yes, but nazi? Come on. They're not even remotely fascist. One of the technical requirements for the state to be considered facsist is the absense of a democractically electable government, and Israel is definitely a democracy.

2) Ban American bands? So now we're going to blame ALL Americans for Bush? Last time I checked, more than half of America didn't vote for him, and many of his most outspoken critics are Americans. On one hand it's heartening to see so many Europeans take a stand against Bush, but it's also really morbid to see the motivation for much of that : blind prejudice. I'm as anti-Bush as they come, but if this is where it's heading, count me out. I'd go to WOA 2004 if Cannibal Corpse were the ONLY band playing.

 

[mugabe]

Re: let's not blame all Americans for all problems

Originally posted by Shukri
1) Israel is not nazi. Their government is violent and racist, yes, but nazi? Come on. They're not even remotely fascist. One of the technical requirements for the state to be considered facsist is the absense of a democractically electable government, and Israel is definitely a democracy.

2) Ban American bands? So now we're going to blame ALL Americans for Bush? Last time I checked, more than half of America didn't vote for him, and many of his most outspoken critics are Americans. On one hand it's heartening to see so many Europeans take a stand against Bush, but it's also really morbid to see the motivation for much of that : blind prejudice. I'm as anti-Bush as they come, but if this is where it's heading, count me out. I'd go to WOA 2004 if Cannibal Corpse were the ONLY band playing.

1. Democratically elected fascists are not fascist? Maybe my choice of word was a bit weak, but what do you call state-subsidized deportations, demolition of civilian's homes, political assassinations, occupation, and discrimination? "Democratic" wasn't my first choice.

2. I wasn't entirely serious. But at least then we wouldn't risk having any performers with dubyos political beliefs onstage at Wacken. The recommended daily intake of bigoted, ignorant, right-wing christian police-state-celebrating views is less than those of one bassist/day.

 

[Ancalagon]

Shukri, if you honestly think Mayhem is a Nazi band, make sure you let me know who you are at Wacken so I can slap you like a little girl for thinking such idiocracy.

 

[Shukri]

grab some bench lumpy

Originally posted by Ancalagon
Shukri, if you honestly think Mayhem is a Nazi band, make sure you let me know who you are at Wacken so I can slap you like a little girl for thinking such idiocracy.

hey, park it neutral, all of you - I will post my Mayhem nazi "proof" when I'm goddamn good and ready. I am amazed at the spirited defence Mayhem receives on this forum. I stand by what I've alleged, and I know I'm not alone.

It's one thing treating an allegation with scepticism, but some of the responses I've received are plain laughable. I'm sure Hellhammer's own family would have been at pains to cough up this kind of blind devotion.

 

[Ancalagon]

Re: grab some bench lumpy

Originally posted by Shukri
hey, park it neutral, all of you - I will post my Mayhem nazi "proof" when I'm goddamn good and ready. I am amazed at the spirited defence Mayhem receives on this forum. I stand by what I've alleged, and I know I'm not alone.

It's one thing treating an allegation with scepticism, but some of the responses I've received are plain laughable. I'm sure Hellhammer's own family would have been at pains to cough up this kind of blind devotion.

I know what picture you are talking about. Your arguement is retarded. Just because he poses in front of a flag doesn't make the band a Nazi band. If that's the case then these guys: http://www.nsjap.com are Nazis too. People who make WW2 video games are all Nazis too. Anyone who makes a WW2 movie that has Nazis in it is a Nazi too. Get a life and worry about something else than a commercial Black Metal band like Mayhem.

 

[monochrom]

Why don't you all come down and reserve your anger for some real-life nazis?

And isn't the Hellhammer blubber just something like the stupid redneck stuff, only with a norwegian flavour? Of cousre it's stupid, but to call somebody a nazi right away? Not good.

And I think of the world and some other countries come to mind which at least border on fascism. Myanmar. North Korea. Laos. Indonesia. India. Pakistan. Sudan. Both Kongos. Guinea. Sierra Leone. Liberia. Saudi-Arabia. Probably some more African countries I don't know anything about. The methods are to be seen everywhere. Makes Mayhem seem even less important.

 

[dittohead]

not forgetting China

 

[Thordis V.]

Originally posted by DISGORGE
Mayhem arent nazis, where the FUCK do you get that idea???

Thordis> The old frontman of Mayhem, Euronymous, was a diehard communist for some time. I guess thats what youve heard

Yes, I meant him but I didn't remember his name when I wrote this post.

 

[Thordis V.]

Originally posted by Supercharger
right shukri..so you're one of those really political correct persons who still thinks Slayer is a band with nazi ideas, because their fanclub is called the Slaytanic Wehrmacht? What's next? Calling everyone with camoflage trousers and a bald head a nazi? Get a life man

Or call every German and Austrian a Nazi?! Or everyone being bald?! Or everyone driving a VolksWagen?! Where should this end up to... ?!

 

[Sec]

Originally posted by Shukri
Hey, just saw that Mayhem is going to appear in 2004. What? I thought the organizers were doing an anti-nazi theme this year. Why let an openly nazi band perform then? Makes no sense to me. I really hope they throw Mayhem off the bill, because I'm not up for attending any festival where they play.

congratulations: you sir are a fucking retard

 

[Shukri]

er .... no

Originally posted by Ancalagon
I know what picture you are talking about. Your arguement is retarded. Just because he poses in front of a flag doesn't make the band a Nazi band. If that's the case then these guys: http://www.nsjap.com are Nazis too. People who make WW2 video games are all Nazis too. Anyone who makes a WW2 movie that has Nazis in it is a Nazi too. Get a life and worry about something else than a commercial Black Metal band like Mayhem. [/QUOTE

You're completely missing the point - it's not JUST because he's standing infront of a flag. Or JUST because he makes a comment against immigrants. Or JUST because he tacitly supports the Norwegian Heathen Front. It's all three lumped together. Plus other stuff he's said.

It's also downright ridiculous on your part to imply that my accusations are based solely on a single picture with a single piece fo nazi memorabilia. Or that I'm saying that anybody who makes a WWII movie, or even a WWII reference (such as Vader) is nazi.

Mayhem, and Hellhammer in particular, deserve to be tarred with the nazi epithet because of their long history of statements and events. And even if Hellhammer has never actually come out and said openly "I am a card-carrying, signed-up, registered Nazi", he has done more than enough to earn his black mark. Nazism isn't just wearing a cheesy uniform and giving lame salutes - it's an attitude and a mindset as well, and if he exhibits just the latter, that's enough. Let's not forget, he's a commercial musician that has to operate in an industry where openly expressing his views will limit his employment. So he dances around the definition, instead of getting caught underneath it.

 

[dittohead]

Cauterized - Extreme Deathgrind Social Holocaust
www.cauterized.com

hyprocrite???

 

[Shukri]

Originally posted by monochrom
Why don't you all come down and reserve your anger for some real-life nazis?

And isn't the Hellhammer blubber just something like the stupid redneck stuff, only with a norwegian flavour? Of cousre it's stupid, but to call somebody a nazi right away? Not good.

And I think of the world and some other countries come to mind which at least border on fascism. Myanmar. North Korea. Laos. Indonesia. India. Pakistan. Sudan. Both Kongos. Guinea. Sierra Leone. Liberia. Saudi-Arabia. Probably some more African countries I don't know anything about. The methods are to be seen everywhere. Makes Mayhem seem even less important.

I can see what you're arguing for, and that is a valid way of looking at it. But then, when does something stop being "stupid redneck stuff" and start being a serious problem? You could probably argue that most nazism today isn't a serious problem, because most of it is just isolated groups of socially-disfunctional people who feel marginalized from society. They may beat up a few people here and there, and occasionally kill somebody, but they're never ever going to end up controlling Europe again.

But then you can look at many of the more acceptable European far-right parties, and see that most of them aren't much better. They're usually very disorganized with lots of infighting, have a single powerful personality as leader, are entirely reactionary (as opposed to have a forward-looking agenda), and most importantly, win a lot of their support by spreading fear, hate and disinformation.

I've always thought the best way to deal with such forms of ignorance is to nix it as soon as possible. Besides. WOA is supposed to be a party for everybody - why let a band that is at best racist, at worst nazi, perform?

 

[monochrom]

Originally posted by dittohead
not forgetting China

They would be amongst my next group, consisting of 40+ states. Useless, humanity-hating bureaucratic oligarchy-type dictatorships.

 

[dittohead]

Originally posted by monochrom
They would be amongst my next group, consisting of 40+ states. Useless, humanity-hating bureaucratic oligarchy-type dictatorships.

agrees with that